On Monday, March 10, Roma Radio Patrin and Terraforming
broadcast live Skype interviews with Romani activists discussing their
perspectives on the current crisis in Ukraine. The interviews marked the first
time that Roma Radio Patrin has also broadcast a video feed of its online radio
program.
Moderator Orhan Galjus spoke with
Zola Kondur in Kiev, the Vice President of the “Chiricli”
Romani Women’s Fund who is a parliamentary expert on gender issues and has
worked for the Council of Europe and the European Roma Rights Centre and with
Valery Novoselsky, Executive Editor of Roma Virtual Network, who was
born in Ukraine.
Galjus first introduced Zola
Kondur as someone who has been involved in activism since childhood. He mentioned
recent reports of Romani people being attacked in Kiev and asked for her
perspective on the incidents.
Ms Kondur noted that the reports
seem to be confined to the area around the capital for now and said her
organization has been trying to analyze why they are taking place in the Kiev
region. She noted that many different groups in Ukraine are trying to exploit its
current lack of stability and said her organization believes the reported
attacks have been attempts at provoking interethnic conflict. She also said the
Romani community in the west of Ukraine has reportedly formed its own street
patrols to defend both non-Romani and Romani people from possible attacks and
attempts at provocation.
Galjus noted a parallel between
the current situation in Ukraine and the interethnic conflicts during the
breakup of Yugoslavia, when Romani people found themselves caught between various
warring sides. Ms Kondur agreed with that assessment, noting that Romani people
have also been participating in the protests in Ukraine and have been very
active in supporting Maidan and the “European direction of the country”,
including the government’s official strategy on Roma adopted last fall, which
she said was “part of the European development of Ukraine and the EU
association that was proposed to Ukraine.”
Galjus next asked about the
situation for Roma in Crimea. Ms Kondur said she is in daily touch with Romani
mediators there and that the situation is very tense because there are many
Russian troops on the ground. She stressed that the Romani people she has
spoken with have told her they do not want to live in Crimea if it joins the
Russian Federation, and said she is concerned that Romani people in Crimea will
not have a chance to raise their voices against the upcoming referendum on that
issue or to participate in it. She also fears that the results of the
referendum may not be accurately counted because the Crimean Parliament has
essentially already decided to join Russia, even though polls reportedly
indicate that only about 40 % of the population there agrees with such a move.
“The question for us Roma
organizations here,” Ms Kondur said, “is how we can help these families if they
have to leave, and where they will go. We are trying to talk with international
organizations, with embassies in Kiev, to see what we can do for them.” She
said unofficial data estimate there are between 200 000 and 400 000
Roma in Ukraine as a whole, with an estimated 4 000 in Crimea.
“I am personally very worried,”
Kondur said, “because it is very important that people be able to stay and live
in their motherland, that they can speak their own language, that they can have
the possibility to learn that language. I cannot say that it has been a problem
in Ukraine so far to speak your own language, to develop your culture, to
preserve it. What worries me at the moment is that if Romani people have to
leave Crimea, how are they going to live? Where will their children go to
study? What opportunities will they have? If they don’t have passports, how
will they travel? Where will they go? We have no answers to these questions at
the moment.
Some Roma still have their
older Russian passports, but some have lost their documents, while others never
had any to begin with. When they try to get a passport, they have to provide a
permanent residence document to get it, with an address, and in Crimea and some
other places, Romani people live in unofficial settlements where the houses are
not officially registered. You cannot prove that you are living in an
unregistered place. This is one of the reasons why many Roma cannot get
passports, as well as a lack of birth certificates and many other documents.
It’s a complex problem.”
Galjus asked whether Romani
organizations in Ukraine are now in touch with the new government. Ms Kondur said
she has met with representatives of the Ministry of Social Policy and plans to
meet with the Culture Ministry, which is “responsible for national minority
issues”, as well as with the Parliament’s Human Rights Committee. Romani
organizations in Ukraine have also issued an appeal
for peace. She ended the interview by thanking Roma Radio Patrin for helping
to report on the situation, noting that “the Russian media are spreading
absolutely wrong information about the situation in Ukraine and in Crimea”. She
also thanked all of the Romani NGOs who have called her organization and
written to others there to show their support.
Galjus then spoke with Roma
Virtual Network editor Valery Novoselsky on a rather garbled Skype connection
from Budapest. Novoselsky noted that the Romani minority in Ukraine is not as
large, proportionally, as the Roma population in the Balkans was during the breakup
of Yugoslavia. In his view, Ukraine is “on the brink of real democracy, not
corrupted democracy, and Roma are very happy to support such initiatives.” He
expressed the hope that nonviolent resolutions would prevail even though Russia
is now flexing its muscles, in his view because Putin is afraid the movement of
Maidan might spread to Moscow.
“In my personal opinion, as
someone who grew up in Ukraine and now lives in Israel,” Novoselsky said,
“there will be a clash, but not necessarily a war. Russia doesn’t really want
to have a war.” He went on to note that military conscripts from Transcarpathia
are reportedly already seeking asylum in Hungary to avoid fighting.
Based on communications with
members of his family in Ukraine, Novoselsky said this coming Saturday 16 March
will be a crucial moment, as no one knows whether they can expect to receive
their state pensions given that Ukraine is broke. People are reportedly
hoarding food in case of an invasion and also anticipate that the ATM machines may
one day be empty.
The international Terraforming
network, which co-produced the broadcast, consists of four independent NGOs
based in Bosnia and Hercegovina, The Netherlands, Serbia and Sweden.
Terraforming works to develop cultural exchange and social engagement by
supporting local cultural initiatives to strengthen diversity, human rights and
tolerance and to combat discrimination, racism and xenophobia.
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